In the past I’ve published a couple of “He said, she said” blog posts.
In those cases I received worthwhile pushback from a couple of the GIRLS I know.
To change things up, it’s now time for a little “He said, HE said” instead here.
In Part 1 I expressed my difference of opinion.
It was about a love poem one of my MALE Facebook friends had written.
He and I first met actually disagreeing about this very thing. That’s how we became Facebook friends!
When I shared my post with him he wrote me privately and we had a great back and forth about it.
As you know I’m all about relationship options here.
Though I have my own perspectives, I’m not trying to tell you how to live either.
To me the best way for you to figure that out?
It’s to hear what different people are thinking and experiencing.
So in the spirit of this kind of open market of ideas, my friend agreed to let me publish our conversation.
I hope you find it valuable as you think about what romantic love really means to you.
HERE IS HOW OUR CHAT WENT:
Him: It’s just a feel good romantic poem. Some of us enjoy reciprocal relationship of focus on the other person. People are enjoying it, just let the vibe roll instead of putting a damper on it.
Me: Sorry you feel that way. Just expressing another opinion. One some of the girls are actually expressing. And one I think is vital for those truly wanting long term romantic relationships in my opinion. You and I first met up and friended each other about just a perspective share don’t you remember?
Him: Sometimes I post things just to lighten the day and make people smile. This is not intended to be something to debate. It ruins the whole vibe that people are enjoying.
Me: Haha. Okay. I’m really about helping people genuinely find and nurture love. Feeding this fantasy doesn’t ultimately do that at all sadly. Anyway apologies if you feel I “rained on your parade.” That was definitely not my intention. I’m all about people sharing their perspectives. Have a good day my friend!
Him: A poem is simply art. Plus I think you have it completely wrong. Men who actually understand romance have very happy women. Women are natural givers and in most cases are more attentive to the man than he is her. Women have endless conversations with each other trying to figure out men. Look at a womans magazine, It’s all about pleasing men. Men rarely take the time to understand what femininity is all about and how it works. A smart man will realize that a woman usually gives back threefold. It’s not about “taking” as you say, it’s about being reciprocal. I’m not guessing on this, I’ve lived it and can write a book on it. That’s why I could write that poem. Woman are responding the way they are because they are wired that way 90% of the time. A few are not. Your blog is waaaay off.
Me: Yes and most men are naturally wired to want to bed pornstars. Doesn’t mean our natural addictions are actually about love. This is all about reproduction. Love is valuing your partner for who they ARE. When you love someone like that, they don’t have to do a thing for you. You love them for them and just want to be with them. Not saying you’ll never do anything for each other. But that will be a byproduct not the main attraction.
Him: I totally disagree with you
Me: “Romantic love” is way off and this claim is backed by the actual statistics.
Him: Good relationships are based on each focusing on the other and nobody wants to marry a pornstar
Me: Absolutely. But focusing on each other is not jumping through circus hoops.
Him: Is leaving notes circus hoops?
Me: My point is this whole thing is a HUGE female fantasy and it never ends once you start trying to feed it. Why should you HAVE to feed it? That is my point. Does she love you or doesn’t she?
Him: Nobody said that.
Me: If she does she doesn’t need ANY of this because YOU are what she’s valuing
Him: It just makes it extra special when two people put in extra effort
Me: You said you have to WORK and EARN and KEEP IT exciting. That is not just something here and there. Special is fine. But that is not what all those women are responding to. They think it should be like that ALL THE TIME. They think if it isn’t you don’t REALLY love them.
Him: Trust is earn through coming through over and over again
Me: Being there over and over again should be enough
Him: It deepens with consistency, that with anyone
Me: Consistently BEING THERE should be enough. YOU should be enough. Not all these “trinkets.”
Him: Everything deepens with consistency/It’s a freaking poem. You are waaaay too analytical lol
Me: But look at those girls’ freakin responses! This is not “just a poem” to any of them. They actually think real life should be like this. And that is why divorce rates are 50%+ and unhappiness rates are pushing 80%. Women instigate divorces 65% of the time. Their dissatisfaction with their partners is endless. Yes I’m analytical.
Him: Because they are wired like that. I could post about football and get the same amount of responses from guys.
Me: Because I want to help people actually find REAL love in their lives. These girls are not going to get what they want because it is a fantasy. A natural addiction. Just like our addiction to sex.
Him: It’s not a fantasy. I live it.
Me: I don’t see anybody defending the idea we should be able to bed pornstars!
Him: It’s just understanding women.
Me: I dont doubt you can “get with women” feeding their fantasy. I totally expect that. I do understand women are wired this way.
I just deny what is happening is real love. They are into you for how you make them feel.
Him: I can “get” with women doing nothing
Me: They are not into you for you and that is tragic.
Him: This is how I treat my girlfriends and my ex wife, not women I get with. I know how to see things from their eyes. You are completely wrong. It’s reciprocal, not what they get. They don’t even expect it, they just appreciate it. BIG DIFFERENCE
Me: Again though that’s not what the girls responding are saying. They are saying if I guy doesn’t do this they are “passing.”
Him: They are just saying they love it
Me: That’s like us saying if a girl isn’t having sex with us we’re passing
Him: That not what they are saying at all. You made that up. They just like the idea.
Me: No I see it happening over and over. You can know this by what you yourself have been saying. 90% of them won’t give guys who don’t “know how to do this” the time of day
Him: Nobody said they are passing. Women like romantic stuff. Not true, I did not say that.
Me: One girl explicitly said “It’s so hard to find the one” because guys just don’t do this. You implied it by saying 90% of girls are wired that way. They are not going to respond if you don’t do it
Him: Im wired to watch football the entire weekend. Am I looking for a woman that agrees?
Me: Haha. I’m sure many women who have divorced their TV husbands will tell you a thing or two about that one lol!
Him: And no woman said that I just looked. Listen, women who like that stuff should find a man that does. I like that stuff hence I write a poem.
Me: The problem is the statistics don’t support that. Relationships are failing and failing and failing and it is because people are being totally unrealistic
Him: Support what?
Me: They aren’t seeking REAL love. They are seeking fantasies and being disappointed. Women who seek that are going to be disappointed
Him: Disappointed by men who never take the time to understand women.
Me: They are being disappointed over and over
Him: Not by me
Me: Women aren’t understanding men. They aren’t seeking real men they are seeking a man who will fulfill a fantasy
Me: Do a bunch of stuff instead of value who he is
Him: DEAD WRONG. NOPE.
Me: Okay my friend. Guess we’ll just have to agree to disagree again. I think that is how we first became friends as I recall was disagreeing over this one!
Him: When you have great communication and connection added with romance,….MAGIC
Me: Yep. But then you don’t have them into you for YOU
Him: That what communication is for my friend
Me: Okay you be you! But I’ll still keep sharing what the statistics are actually saying… And communication is not doing all this extra stuff. If they are into you for you then it isn’t really necessary.
Him: And I’ll keep sharing the truth that I get to experience in real life. Stats can’t measure connection and communication. Stats feel nothing and are affected by a myriad of things. You are looking at it from a narrow angle.
Me: Stats express what the majority of people are experiencing. Women will continue to be frustrated over “emotionally unavailable guys” endlessly because what they are seeking is a fantasy. But people who shift to actually valuing their partner for who they actually are? That is the stuff of long term relationships!
Him: My friend, I did not say that you start off with these things. Do you understand how awesome it is to be married for 30 years and to be able to romance your woman like that? I know people like that. Their marriages are amazing!
Me: I have no issue with sharing with your partner in any way you like. But this fantasy that is has to be that way or something is wrong is showing itself to be devastating. Expectations of any kind.
Him: Noboby said its the only way. It’s just an awesome way
Me: Just be who you are together. If that is not enough there are going to be problems. Cool! I’m happy you enjoy it and I don’t doubt for you there is much more to it.
Him: Good for you. I like to alway get better myself
Me: But you have to understand how MANY women out there are wounded and this stuff just feeds their emotional wounds
Him: Being me of yesterday doesn’t cut it for me. I don’t agree. They just desire romance. Most guys know nothing about it.
Me: Catering to their woundedness doesn’t bring healing
Him: Way off
Me: There is “romance” and there is romance. True romance is being there and truly valuing each other. All this “romantic” stuff is just window dressing. It’s fine if the real thing is there otherwise it’s going to lead them down a garden path
Him: You’re are so wrong its not even funny. Who said the real thing is not there?
Me: It’s not there for them if all this is REQUIRED. If they expect this stuff of you or it’s not okay. Then they are into the stuff and not into you
Him: Who said its required?
Me: Most women do
Him: It’s just stuff they like
Me: Listen to those comments. Right they like it. But can they do without it?
Him: Its a damn poem
Me: If not then they are not really into you. Then why are you discussing it?! 🙂 Anyway we can beat this horse dead and likely not come to agreement. I value you my friend. I value your perspective. I admire much I see that you’re doing.
Him: The point is only this….learn to be romantic. And I appreciate that.
Me: And I’m saying being romantic is being yourself and sharing yourself with your partner. However that happens. But it doesn’t require any of this stuff despite the fact the women seem to think it does.
Him: Let me clarify. Learn what is romantic to your partner. See romance through her eyes not our own.
Me: I value a partner and so I share myself with her. I’m with a partner because she values me and wants to share herself with me too.
Him: There is a whole other level my friend. Im not saying anything is inadequate, but learning to see through her eyes and push those buttons is magical.
Me: Haha. Okay. You’re obviously enjoying yourself. But as long as girls continue to fantasize about this stuff they are going to be endlessly disappointed.
Him: No, they won’t be disappointed. They just need to connect with the right person. My friends are 80% because I understand women. They just need to find a man who is attentive to women. Who listen and wishes to understand.
Me: And so the search for “the one” continues lol! Anyway my friend thanks for the chat. I respect your difference of opinion
Him: Remember art is always exaggerated in it’s expression. It’s like thinking that women are mislead by a Luther Vandross or Marvin Gaye song. I wouldn’t express it like that if it was just a commentary.
Me: Haha. Okay. Have a great day Rodney and thanks for connecting!
Him: You as well. Enjoy the weekend.
As always I hope you enjoyed this interchange.
Once again lots of things to think about and reflect on.
What does showing your lover you love them REALLY mean?
What kind of behaviors are sustainable for the long run?
How about you? Do you think romantic love means doing all those “little things” or does it consist of sharing YOURSELVES with each other?
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